What to Know
The podcast The Comment Section with Drew Afualo is all about pop culture and discussing important moments and ideas in the zeitgeist. But a clip from a 2023 interview with E.R. Fightmaster, a non-binary actor, has made the rounds on the internet again, showcasing a controversial take from the guest regarding trans women and cisgender women and their individual experiences with womanhood.
After social media got its claws on the clip all over again, Drew came out to defend the episode and the discussion she had with ER at the time. For the host, it was about doubling down on what she said before and calling out those who didn’t understand the sentiment at the time and still, to her, seem unable to grasp the idea that she and ER were trying to get across during the podcast episode.
Drew Afualo and ER Fightmaster sparked brand new outrage when people saw the old clip for the first time.
During the conversation in the 2023 episode of the podcast, ER spoke about how they want cis women to be able to find their own identity without men involved. Whether the men are involved because of their close proximity to cis women, or because of a lifetime of issues cis women have had with men, for ER, the idea was about now allowing men to have that control over cis women.
“I want cis women to stop letting men be a barrier to their identity,” ER said at the time. They also said, “I think that trans women have a more beautiful understanding of what womanhood is. Like, actually no, your womanhood is not your role. Your womanhood is not your status in society and your womanhood is not your ability to be sexually assaulted.”
Some people didn’t quite understand the meaning behind the conversation.
@hopeyoufindyourdad Drew Afualo womanhood podcast discussion #drewafualo #podcast @Drew Afualo ♬ original sound – Andra
At face value, the immediate idea that some have taken away from the conversation, or from the clips, is that cis women do not understand womanhood as well as trans women. Further into the conversation in the entire podcast episode, ER elaborates and explains that “the propaganda is so strong” for cis women.
Drew agrees and adds that for some cis women, their strongest idea of what femininity and womanhood is relates directly to a sexualization of them in regards to men. But both Drew and ER do say that the experiences of some trans women and some cis women are not the experiences of all cis and trans women.
In the comments under a clip from the interview that resurfaced, though, there are different opinions from those who are seeing and hearing the sentiment for the first time.
“Womanhood is not a period or ability to give birth because plenty of cis women can do neither. I just wish the wording wasn’t so divisive,” one person commented.
Another wrote, “Why does there need to be a hierarchy?”
A cis woman added, “I, as a woman, know about my womanhood. I have no doubt trans women have their own experience too. It’s totally demeaning to cis women to say we have no idea who we are.”
Others called out Drew for her role in the conversation and slammed her for agreeing with ER’s sentiment. Which, again, is not fully explored in the resurfaced clip from the years-old podcast episode.
“Drew just out here saying ‘all these other women are weak compared to me,'” a user also wrote.
Drew Afualo addressed the controversy.
@drewafualo lemme know if they listen to this bc I’m tired & busy
♬ original sound – Drew Afualo
Not only did Drew show up in the comments of that clip to share her side of things, but she later posted her own video in response to the new backlash about the podcast episode. In her comment, she urged people to go and watch the entire podcast episode to understand the conversation better.
In her own TikTok, she says:
“I’ll go ahead and catch you up. Conversation being had is about how trans women most oftentimes identify with femininity and womanhood, sometimes even better than cis women do. An entire discussion to it. Maybe you should go watch it before you pretend to get mad. Either way, saying it’s misogynistic to agree with a trans woman on what it means to be a woman and then in your defense of that talking point, saying things like they don’t know what periods feel like or they don’t know what childbirth feels like, is really f–king stupid and embarrassing for multiple reason. Overarching though, bigoted and transphobic. Ironically, though, it’s also misogynistic. Reducing womanhood down to your uterus and what it does is quite literally a pillar In misogyny, that is quite literally a tenant of patriarchy. Reducing women down to being able to have periods and create babies is a huge misogynistic talking point. Weaponizing it to discredit and invalidate trans women also makes you a transphobe.”
Drew then speaks to users who watched the short clip and immediately came for her. She also says it is important for cis women to support trans women, and continuously doubles down on what she said before.
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